Last Updated on September 11, 2023
S01 E25
The Fall shouldn’t really need an introduction. But are you sure they are the band you think they are? For this episode of The Beat Motel Podcast I’m joined by writer Mark Beaumont-Thomas and we discuss the story of Mark E Smith, The Fall and most importantly, the music.
The passing of Mark E Smith appears to have inspired many to take a fresh look at The Fall. Many are realising that the appeal of this band is broader than they thought. So this episode is a look at why The Fall aren’t the scary band for elitists you might have thought they are.
There is a TON of extra info about The Fall on this page, so make sure you scroll down.
Show links
Mark’s track notes
How I wrote ‘Elastic Man’
5th single Released July 1980 Not on an album
Classic lineup of MES Marc Riley, Craig Scanlon, Paul and Steve Hanley
Play 30 secs from 0.15 to 0.45
Leave the Capitol
Last track on Slates, 1981, same lineup as Elastic Man
Play 30 seconds 0.15 – 0.45
L.A.
From This Nation’s Saving Grace 1985
Brix Smith co-write, lineup of MES, Steve Hanley, Brix Smith, Karl Burns on drums, Craig Scanlon guitar, Simon Rogers
Play from beginning
New Big Prinz
Opening track from I am Kurious Oranj 1988
Lineup of MES, Steve Hanley, Craig Scanlon, Brix Smith, Simon Wolstencroft drums, Marcia Schofield keyboards
Play 0.15-0.45
The Mixer
On side 2 (subtitled ‘Notebooks out Plagiarists’) of Shiftwork 1991
No Brix but otherwise similar lineup to New Big Prinz, but additions such as ‘Dave Bush – Machines’ and Kenny Brady – Vocals and Fiddle
Play 0.15-0.45
Lost in Music
From The Infotainment Scan 1993
Similar lineup to Shiftwork
Play 0.30-0.60
Reformation
From Reformation post TLC 2007
Different lineup, which includes MES third wife, Eleni Poulou
Play 0.15-0.45
OFYC Showcase
Opening track from Your Future Our Clutter 2010
Settled lineup of last few albums: Dave Spurr on bass, Pete Greenway on Guitar and Kieron Melling on drums + Eleni Poulou
Play 1.12 – 1.42
The Fall – Recommended reading
Renegade by Mark E Smith
The man in his own words! 2007
The Fallen by Dave Simpson
Tracking down ex-members of the Fall. 2008
The Big Midweek – Life Inside The Fall by Steve Hanley & Olivia Piekarski
If you only read one Fall book, make it this one! 2014
You Can Drum but You Can’t Hide by Simon Wolstencroft
Autobiography of 80s/90s Fall drummer. 2014
The Rise, The Fall & The Rise by Brix Smith Start
Vivid account of Brix’s life before, during and after the Fall. 2016
40 Odd Years of The Fall by Tommy Mackay
Useful song-by-song account of the Fall. 2018
Have a Bleedin Guess – The Story of Hex Enduction Hour by Paul Hanley
Detailed account of making of classic 1982 album. 2019
Excavate! Edited by Tessa Norton & Bob Stanley
Varied and variable collection of essays about the Fall. 2021
Telling Stories – Photographs of The Fall by Kevin Cummins
Excellent and lavish collection of photos by one of the best music photographers. 2022
You Must Get Them All – The Fall on Record by Steve Pringle
Comprehensive review of every Fall album. 2022
The Fall – Recommended Viewing
The Fall playing New Big Prinz, introduced by Tony Wilson
The Fall The Mixer official video
The Fall at Glastonbury 2015 (full set)
Gorillaz at Glastonbury 2010, MES guesting on Glitter Freeze
Hillariously inaccurate podcast transcript
00:00.00
Andrew Culture
Hey cool kids welcome back to the beat motel podcast hey I’ve got a guest here honored guest would you like to introduce yourself hello now I know you as Mbt. So I’m probably going to default to that or Mark.
00:08.82
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yes I’m marked Byman Thomas hi
00:18.50
Andrew Culture
Or just something done.
00:19.40
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, that’s absolutely fine I’ve spent my life being um, truncated and it’s no problem.
00:25.32
Andrew Culture
A life a life with truncated norm non lookture church I can’t say that word that word that means names. Ah right? So Mark you are a an editor would that be a fair way of putting it.
00:36.11
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah I edit nonfiction books for people on any subject that they have written about and get some fun doing it. Yeah.
00:48.17
Andrew Culture
Excellent. So I happen to know also that you’re a fan of the fall and I don’t know a great deal about the fall I know a little bit but I thought it would be an interesting idea to talk to you about the fall and structure it around some songs. Ah, so listener Mark is ah nodding here like like like this is news. We have prepared for this. So normally when we run these episodes ah me and my usual cohost get 4 songs each. But this time we’ve gone for 10 which is as many as I can cram into this software. And it’s the usual rule. We can’t play more than 30 seconds otherwise we get our more potentially get our wrist slapped by prrs and as a musician who’s a member of Prs. Um I want to play by the rules I don’t think Marqui Smith would particularly catch you know. Do you think he would care or not about somebody using his music I think he probably would actually wouldn’t he.
01:49.90
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I think he was um yeah pretty um, defensive of his legacy and of of what it done. What how he would view Rules is another matter. Yeah.
02:02.11
Andrew Culture
Okay, so before we before we launch into this and before we go for our first track I would like you to try and summarize the fall now it seems wild to me that anybody wouldn’t know who the fall were especially kind of listeners to the beat motel zine but. And then in the spirit of inclus inclus I’m going to start using words I can say inclusivity. Could you give me a full one. Ah 1.
02:29.57
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah I mean what’s interesting about the fall is the longevity of them I mean forty odd years they were going right? from 1979 right up to 2017? Um, they are. Really a 40 year reflection of the mind of Marquis Smith who was quite a incredible character. Um I share 1 thing in common with Marquie Smith and that that is definitely the only thing I share in common with him in that. I was born less than two weeks before he was um and yeah and the name Mark. Yes, you think Yes yes, um, and so in their career I’ve I’ve followed in real time. Not all that in.
03:07.18
Andrew Culture
And the name Mark is 2 things.
03:25.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Not in all that much detail much of the time but in the same lifespan and I now that he’s gone I mean he he died sadly in 2018 just age 60 um a bit like my my other hero David Bowie I’m um’m
03:44.50
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Massively in awe at the amount that was crammed into his life and works and into the into the fall I mean they they followed no fashion at all if anything they set fashion throughout their musical life starting. Not really I mean they started in the height of or the the end of punk and the beginning of postpunk but they in some ways they they they were different to anyone else even then and then throughout the 80 s they went unapologetically quite poppy at times which um. Is great and I think one of the things I’d like to get across in this podcast is they’re not as scary as you think they are in that they do seem to have a fairly um, scary reputation as being this knotty difficult. Band to get into and listen to and you know they’re only for serious music types who um, think that everyone else has sold out and the only true ah flagbearer for credibility is Marqui Smith and believe me, there are plenty of people out there. Who do think like that. But you can ditch all that and and just think it’s great music. A lot of it. Fantastic tunes, amazing musicianship. Um, great inventiveness. Amazing lyrics I mean one of the things that draws me to the fall is the lyrical inventiveness of.
05:20.79
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Marqui Smith I mean they just pours out with all of these incredible reference. Ah literary references and all sorts of stuff in there. Um, and so that’s endlessly fascinating plus a bit like ah Bowie. You know he he would. Markie Smith would ruthlessly at times and and at other times a lot of the time by mutual consent change. The lineup of the band I mean famously there have been about 60 members of the fall.
05:50.71
Andrew Culture
I Like to say that there’s a mutual consent. What lovely lovely way of describing it.
05:57.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, I mean actually listening to people like Steve Hanley and when he interviews people I think they do actually play down the comudgeonness of ah of him and try and say that actually a lot of it was was less brutal than it sounds. but but yeah well whatever the circumstances he would change the band switch up the sound um with great regularity and that’s what helped to keep it fresh. Um, which means that you know from um, the. Live at the witch trials in one seventy nine right up to new facts emerge in 2017 across the 32 albums that they made there is something you can find in all of them I mean the John Pele famously said you must get them all. And when when asked what fall album should you get and you know that’s not wrong as a piece of advice although a fairly daunting prospect. Um, and in fact, there is a book that has been that came out fairly recently. Called you must get them all which which chronicles every fall album and so yeah, it’s it’s a fascinating history a fascinating and you know for for someone who loves music you can dip into the fall.
07:29.15
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Forever and still find something new I mean that’s that’s what’s incredible about them.
07:34.12
Andrew Culture
Excellent. So we’re gonna have a clip I’m gonna choose 1 of my clips. Um I’m going to do this now because you mentioned the name of the the first album live at the witch trials and I’ve chosen this little bit which is the intro to a song. So. It’s not really music at all just because I think it. Sets the scene quite nicely for for a lot of the other music that we’re going to listen to.
08:15.40
Andrew Culture
And then no music I just chose that because what I noticed after kind of preparing all the clips with this is how young he sounds in that you you can really hear it in his voice that he was how want to see about 17 when they started.
08:32.46
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah yes I mean that would have been when he was about 2021 I guess yeah um but yeah I mean that they’re not afraid of a tricky introduction to a track and.
08:36.88
Andrew Culture
Oh okay.
08:50.35
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Quite often again. That’s what can be quite fascinating. It’ll it’ll start as 1 thing and then charge off in a completely different direction and also whatever the noodlings are or whatever the warm-up bits are or whatever the ideas just flowing along in the studio quite often. It appears they just started.
09:09.61
Andrew Culture
Are.
09:10.10
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
To press record and then didn’t bother editing the beginning and the end and just said okay, you’re getting. You’re getting the whole thing.
09:19.80
Andrew Culture
That’s very much kind of what what appealed to me the the li at the witch trials is the only album I’ve heard all the way through and and I discovered it as a teenager and it was that little spoken bit that that really stood out for me I mean the the music’s fascinating and interesting but it was that. Hang on I think it was that sense. But I think this guy’s got something to say because ah a lot of the lot of the late era aunk well Rob, let’s call it late 70 S Era Apunk didn’t have that much to say by the time it got to the end it start to sort of Peter out a bit or.
09:53.20
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah I mean I think a huge amount of punk What you could very broadly Label Punk has not aged Well it just seems like fairly basic garage rock and ah just with attitude laid over the top of it and I find.
10:09.66
Andrew Culture
Um.
10:10.72
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
There’s not much of it I find that’s very interesting to listen to whereas I mean something like this was um, completely out of time I mean there’s almost some proggy bits and all sorts of things on live at witch trials. It’s it’s if anything got too many ideas. Bouncing around in it like a lot of first albums do have where it’s there’s so many things that are probably from 3 years worth of ideas that have then ended up going into it. Um, and also with live at the rich trials.
10:46.24
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
It isn’t necessarily that Marqui Smith was the absolute undisputed leader of the band. At that point there was there were other people contributing perhaps a little more equally to the ideas as well and so it’s got a whole load of things going on but actually then the later. Albums immediately following become actually a little bit more almost paired back I mean dragnet is very paired back and an almost low fi in the way it’s recorded compared to live at the witch trial. So. I mean again, a typical example if he wasn’t afraid to it. You know it wasn’t going to be live at the wet trials too. It was going to be something completely different and so it was yeah.
11:32.79
Andrew Culture
We we identified on this podcast and one of the first episodes that bands that progress are always the bands that we love for the longest time. So yeah I think the the fall are absolute I’m not bringing things to a conclusion I’m rushing through here. But yeah, it’s it’s it’s quite obvious the the. You’ll tell from the first dear listener you’ll tell from the first few chats just just how different they are so how how did the band come about I mean how did this this ah chap what the these chaps really how how did they form but what was the what city what was the background.
12:04.73
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Oh well I mean they are. They’re part ah of they’re part ah of but not part ah of a ah Manchester scene I mean they I think um I mean Mark is from. Prest which I think and so sort of out ah of Manchester and rather more of a sort of outsider suburban view of Manchester rather than a hip in a city inner city version of it and I think they. You know they notoriously were quite antagonistic. For example, towards factory records and um things like that which were coming up at a similar time and um, wanted to be very different I mean they initially signed with um. Early on they were on rough trade. But again they got they and and seemed a very obvious fit with rough trade. But I think apparently fell out with them and decided to go elsewhere. So I think they they were always they always quite enjoyed being.
12:58.77
Andrew Culture
Um, all right.
13:14.73
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Outsiders rather than part of any particular scene or.
13:17.61
Andrew Culture
Okay, well let’s let’s let’s start with the the first of of your choices now the title of this one really interests me. It’s how I wrote Elasticman and I assume what my assumption was when I first saw it that. Is talking about elastic man by the kinks which is ah I don’t think it was a hit but it was elastic man was on village green preservation society or after the rise and fall anyway, not a big hit at all and then that’s I was preparing the clip I it blew my mind a bit that this this track was released by the fall in 1980 and plastic mammas releaseasd by the kinks and I think 68 or 69 and I thought it’s easy to forget that. That’s not a big gulf of time between the two. That’s someone writing a song now about I don’t know I’m trying to think of who’s who’s popular none not already. Already in touch with those popular I did someone put you know it’s it’s recent history. It’s it’s it’s recent in it I’ll stop yabbing on I’m gonna play it so this was not on an album which is ah I think’s a ba punk thing because everything now is part of the album. The album. Process and the album you know, write the songs menu I’m go to press play like right now.
15:06.90
Andrew Culture
So so straight off the bat having only heard the first album having only heard live at the witch trials that really surprised me I thought it was I can’t I don’t even know what it is I thought it was like rockabilly or something when it first started.
15:18.64
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Well, there is quite a rockabilly theme that runs through or rockabilly style that runs through quite a lot of fall tracks. They were a bit like you get rockabilly and the Smiths as Well. They they like that rootsy. Music and um, there is a very much a fall version of rockabilly that that appears in a number of tracks and why I wanted to include that that one because it is one of the sort of strands of their style that it’s good to good to show. But it’s the.. The lyrics. Yes I mean you you picked up. It’s this sort of I’m not sure it is referring to the Kinks track I think it’s what I like about it is it’s sort of almost meta and self-referential of of the songwriting process and which is is quite Unusual. Um. Ah I mean there’s some great lines in it. You know life should be full of strangeness like a rich painting but it gets worse day by day I’m a potential deejay a creeping wreck a mental wreck. Wretch. Everyone asked me how I wrote elastic man I mean it. That is just brilliant stuff. Yeah.
16:28.88
Andrew Culture
A is is engaging as you say the the lyrics I started looking some of them up just just to amazing to try and understand what you’re saying because his diction isn’t always the clearest and but I’m speaking to someone with missing teeth who hisses when they talk.
16:40.29
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No.
16:47.70
Andrew Culture
But it had so much character to his voice and in fact, it ah quite often think that when people talk about musicians who might not be perfect singers but have good expression. They always talk about you know John Lennard and Bob Dylan say well Marky Smith’s there as well. Yeah, he he.
17:04.88
Andrew Culture
He’s not like not exactly a voice of an angel. But.
17:07.98
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No I mean his his his voice can do he does do some real singing every now and again I mean there’s the the track bill is dead which is a very unusually sort of um plaintiff. Song I mean he he can officially be described as singing on that. Um the rest of the ah lot of the time he does this sort of so almost spoken singing which of course has become incredibly popular again. There are all sorts of bands out there who ah who who are using that and you can see the. Markey Smith um influence running right through a load of well very current bands. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:49.25
Andrew Culture
Well rubb. Yeah yard act. It’s it’s really clear and I like the fact yardr act are progressing I like the fact that I love the new single the Trenchco Museum I think it’s it’s absolutely great that that’s quite an obvious kind of clear line to me between the fall and yardrd act. But there aren’t other people that you know Anthonyton some mecker is his play I think he’ you know he’s played quite a long 6 music by I saw him here in Ipswich a few a few weeks ago and he he said during the set that I am just a bloke talking in front of ah, a band and I thought well again now you say it there is quite a direct line between.
18:09.00
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I Know the name. But yeah.
18:27.11
Andrew Culture
Antiseus and and the fall as well.
18:27.39
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, and I mean and you know band like dry cleaning I mean the the woman who who fronts them I mean she sounds like a female Marquis Smith at times and and actually has a very similarly. Detailed observational style of lyric going on. So yeah, there’s there’s a lot of and black country New Road ah the the guy who’s now left he was. You could tell again a very so observational detailed spoken style of singing.
19:00.58
Andrew Culture
So so that’s kind of bands now that are obviously influenced by the fall and they they are for me. They are one of those bands a bit like there’s a cliche about the Beber underground saying only a thousand people bought the first rail underground album but all of those thousand people formed a band.
19:01.71
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, it’s great.
19:20.00
Andrew Culture
Think the the numbers are probably aren’t quite the same for the fall because there are at release so many albums but they they are a musician’s band they are. They do seem to to be in favor with with people who are musicians and and playing bands.
19:30.73
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah I think that’s right, but I think that’s also this sort of mystique as well around them that can actually be off-putting to the to the general listener and I think um, you know don’t feel you’ve only got to you’ve got to be a musician to appreciate them. There. They’re open to everyone.
19:51.70
Andrew Culture
Um, I think to be honest, a lot of it is is a bit more challenging if you’re a musician but I picked something out so were we’re talking obviously about kind of their their influence on current things. But 1 thing that I interested me about how I wrote elastic man is I mentioned the rockabilly at the star. But there’s also something in there to my ears which is a lot more linked to what was going on at the time around 1980 and the little guitar bit the the the the little ah loop loop guitar I know it’s being played but loop guitar that doesn’t quite finish the phrase before it then starts again. That’s really like. Crowd rock or can or Noi or something like that.
20:29.20
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, oh will well actually famously he is a marqui Smith was a big fan of can and in fact, name checks demo suzuki on um, almost me.
20:41.92
Andrew Culture
I am demo Suzuki. Yeah.
20:45.38
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, all quite yeah, which is the brilliant track and so yeah, he he was he was quite I think ah a crout rock fan. Yeah.
20:55.70
Andrew Culture
Wise man right? Um, now looking at the lineup of the band at this time I know we had lots lots of different people coming coming and going coming and going from from the fall but in the lineup we are mentioned the most obvious one last but Craig Scanlan was he was he on the first is this the same lineup as the first album no hook cut it. He changed it really fast then.
21:14.74
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
That no no noillia yeah, yeah no no it is quite different. Yeah that Martin Bramer had left Eunna Baines had left There are various people who who are no longer there I mean this this lineup is. Do bringing in Paul and Steve handy the 2 brothers Paul Handley on drums and Steve handy who’s the longest running fall member besides Markie Smith I think I’m right in saying he was in the band for 20 years and um.
21:49.78
Andrew Culture
Um, oh wow.
21:51.51
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Wrote an amazing book called the big weekend life inside the fall which it which is if I’ve got a pile of fall books I wanted to mention books about the fall. Um, this is probably my favorite I mean it’s funny. It’s candid it.
21:56.37
Andrew Culture
It’s a thick book as well.
22:10.85
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
You know, clearly the love-hate relationship they had is at times tragic at a lot of times. Absolutely hilarious, but the the falls out that you know there’s this thing the fall sound I mean in in many ways during that the period throughout the 80 s and into the 90 s is driven by the the bass guitar of Steve Hanley and you could be. It could be said that that’s the engine room of the fall and so yeah and and Paul and Steve Hanley now host and run. Ah, really good fall podcast called o brother with the name of a fall song oh brother and they they interview all sorts of interesting people I mean ex-members of the fall. But then.
22:54.68
Andrew Culture
Ah, right.
23:06.89
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
A well-known fall fans super fanns like Stuart Lee and people like that who they interview but you know Clint Boone and Tim Burgess various people from the sort of Manchester scene who they know and John Lecky was producer that that they’re.
23:17.45
Andrew Culture
Are.
23:24.57
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, think I have listened to every episode I don’t listen to all that much all that many podcasts but that is highly recommended and to to check out what was hilarious is that they they themselves get into disputes about when things were recorded and who was there and who was in the lineup and. There’s so much of a complicated history that even even they who were there at the time can’t remember some stuff you know.
23:46.81
Andrew Culture
And unsurprising just through the the pace of of of how often they they released music. Um I’m going to include links ass many links I can in the show note So I’m I’ll look up the oh boy podcast because you mentioned several people. Oh oh oh brother you mentioned ah several people there who who I’d be really interested in in.
23:52.75
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah.
23:58.11
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Her brother? Yeah yeah.
24:06.90
Andrew Culture
Hearing their thoughts on the fall. Um, especially ah John Lecky as a producer kind of because he’s someone I I want to read up on because he he produced a lot of my favorite bands in the early 90 s he he was the real go to for pretty much the whole scene. So I’d be really interested in that now.
24:08.40
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah.
24:25.28
Andrew Culture
Talking of histories and other members of the band. The the name that sticks out there most to me is Mark Riley who I mean as as a teenager I knew him as the boy lard because he he was on the evening show with with Mark Radcliffe for
24:32.57
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, yes, yeah.
24:36.86
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, yeah, and of course it’s still still there. Yeah yeah.
24:44.40
Andrew Culture
Oh it’s the ace but he’s still there and he at first he didn’t really talk much about the fall on the radio show but him and Mark Radcliffe go back but to the 70 s you know they they know each other a long time and then he went through a brief phase in the early 90 s of having a bit of fun with it. And one of the things I used to like about Mark Radcliffe’s late show on radio one is he they do kind of skits I mean it sounds really weird to say it now but they would do little recorded bits and one of the things when they then transferred to daytime radio one just didn’t really connect with anyone at all. They were just like what the hell is this but some he did. I wish I could find it Mark Riley did my life in the fall or something like that and it was a series of of little skits about being in the fall and again the time span back then that wasn’t that long after it left. But they were really funny. They’d always end up with some calamity like Markie Smith insisting that he played um, played with cricket or oven mits on that he’d glued to his just it was always this full of this stuff and I can remember the time thinking I i. Can’t really decide if that’s real or not because at the time Mark Riley was putting himself over as quite an absurd character in in a fun way. I mean that in a nice way, but really not not the sort of he’s still fairly darved now. But now he’s a bit more of a sort of elder statesman of ah and curator of of interesting music. But so.
26:08.66
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, oh and oh gosh I get the there are so many stories of people being kicked out. Yeah I mean it is is the one about.
26:11.68
Andrew Culture
So what’s the story with Mark Mark Riley and and I’m hoping that that the press release about and being kicked out isn’t apocryphal I’ll ask you about that in a minute.
26:27.79
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I mean somebody got sacked for eating a salad but well supposedly yeah, but yeah, no I mean I think he had um, there was that sort of jostling of power going on I think before I think it was a little bit before in in.
26:43.72
Andrew Culture
Um, ah.
26:47.55
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Relatively early days of not necessarily it being a um Marie Smith autocracy and I think Mark Riley was one of the people who was. Prepared to stand up to him at times and I think you know there would be some fruity arguments as a result, but.
27:12.85
Andrew Culture
Is interest is it’s difficult to see that now because you know really as you say really do think of the fall as as being Markie Smith would he say if it’s me and your grandma on bongos. It’s still the fall. So the idea is somebody else trying to get there.
27:25.90
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:31.12
Andrew Culture
Thoughts across on on anything to do with the fool especially Mark Riley just seems just seems really strange the the quote. Ah do do you know there’s several quotes that allegedly marque smith explained why he fired Mark Riley
27:31.20
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yes. Yeah.
27:46.71
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Oh yeah, you just remind me I mean not yeah.
27:48.86
Andrew Culture
Well the one I heard is that the press release said you know we have parted ways with Mark Riley because he’s a fucking idiot. Yeah as a press release that out to the enemy and sounds and whatever. But the the other one is that.
28:00.60
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yeah.
28:08.32
Andrew Culture
Markie Smith fired Mark Riley on his wedding day for one which I had heard from several different kind of sources.
28:14.76
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yes, I mean that’s in that’s in the book in in the Steve handy book. Yeah.
28:19.88
Andrew Culture
But he’s his reason one of the other reasons he gave for firing him and I imagine Mark picked just made up reasons whenever he fancied was that when the fall were on tour in Australia he caught Mark Riley dancing to deep purple.
28:34.90
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, well I mean that you know that that is a sackccable offense. You know? Um, um, yeah, but he he shares that with them. He shares it with Woody woodmanancy who was sacked by David bow on on on Woody Woodmans’s
28:49.85
Andrew Culture
Oh god it was wasn’t that that might been what I was thinking of actually car dear me I’m getting my folklore confused between Mark Riley and
28:51.30
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Wedding day snow.
28:55.24
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I know no you know it is no that that is reminded me it is in the book. Yeah, um, so yeah, and of course there’s a whole again I think that all this sort of folklore and all of these stories of sackings and arguments and I mean there’s the. Was a fight on stage in New York where they ended up in it briefly in jail and all sorts of things. Um I think to me while they’re fun stories I I rather just stick to the music in some ways but you know.
29:32.42
Andrew Culture
Sometimes I think it does help sort of sort of turn bands into legends one. 1 of my favorite bands are replacements the stories. Yeah, you’re right, they they can sort of become larger than the music and it’s the music. that’s that’s really ah interesting the thing with the fall those. There is so much folklore around marking smith they.
29:51.38
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
yeah yeah I mean another book which is really fun is this one the fall where where Dave Simpson tracks down and interviews as many people as he can who used to be in the fall. What’s it. It’s quite a large number of people.
30:08.15
Andrew Culture
That’s quite a task.
30:10.12
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Some of who were only in it for I don’t know almost one song or an afternoon or something.
30:15.65
Andrew Culture
There there was a a parody I can’t even remember where it what where I saw it but early days of the internet exclusive interview with um Prince Harry who confirms he will be playing bass for the fall. It might be 1 of Stuart Maconi’s things that he used to do in the enemy and he it was a it was a parody of.
30:26.70
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah.
30:32.26
Andrew Culture
Prince Harry when he joined the army saying you know every person’s got to do their duty for the country and whatever. But it’s all just flipped around to like I’m going to be playing bases for the fall because everyone’s got to do their duty and everyone everyone’s time comes to be in the fall and.
30:43.34
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yes, yes.
30:46.76
Andrew Culture
Okay, so while while we’re still on the same lineup then let’s go to the next track which is leave the capital which is um I’m going by the way listened I’m going off Mark’s notes here. Um I’m um’ it be kind of disingenu to make myself sound like I’m knowledgeable here. Ah Mark kindly made notes which is making my life very easy. So. Leave the capital which is the last track on slate’s from 1981 and as we say it’s the same lineup as elasticman incidentally poor press play capital is speltcapitolnot not see a.
31:18.83
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yes, yeah I think that is there’s quite a lot of quite a lot of words that are either made up or misspelt intentionally right throughout the fall and I think this this is a nice ambiguity between.
31:23.47
Andrew Culture
Eap.
31:33.32
Andrew Culture
Um, ah.
31:37.90
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I mean the capital you would think of as Washington Dc it’s that sort of feel but actually it’s also talking about London. So yeah.
31:43.78
Andrew Culture
There was I thought the spelling I think that’s the same spelling as Capital records I don’t is but as you say that there’s There’s all these ambiguities which if deliberate a kind of Genius really pen. Yeah, let’s play the song.
31:48.50
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
We move.
31:56.71
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah.
32:30.46
Andrew Culture
Just just it doesn’t even sound like the same band I mean unmistakably Marques Smith but the the the melodies and the the rhythms that’s really that’s good music I think it’s it’s really simply a good good band.
32:33.19
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, which.
32:42.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, um, yeah I mean what? what strikes me about that track is it’s actually got an American feel to it. It sounds like that chugging it could be ah ah, almost the birds or someone like that I mean it’s um, ah a.
32:56.82
Andrew Culture
Yeah.
33:01.42
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
So. There’s so many influences they pull in and then then reshape for themselves that they’re not I think that’s what’s great. They’re not afraid to pick and choose and take all sorts of things I mean that’s the the other tracks some of the other tracks I’ve I’ve picked are deliberately again, completely different. And in style to any sort of dense punk post punk thing that you might just bracket the fall into and I think I mean slate’s is is it. An album is it an ep. There’s this great. Debate. It’s only other notes. It’s about half an hour long but then some great lps are only half an hour long um it does officially get I think referred to as an album in the you must get them all books so I’m I’m counting it as an an album um and it it. It is one of the as ah as a sort of taster of that whole era just those tracks just go away and listen to those and you’re getting a sort of condensed bit of brilliance of that whole fall era in 6 tracks. So that’s why I’ve included something from slate’s.
34:15.65
Andrew Culture
I probably should have asked you this before we started recording but have you have you put these on ah on a Spotify playlist or anything.
34:21.44
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I can do no but I I have got a Spotify playlist I put together for that fall presentation I think you might have seen that I did yeah the yeah yeah yeah.
34:29.87
Andrew Culture
Oh ah for N networking that did that that be good I mean it’s don’t want to sort of stick dogmatically to this? Um, but it’s I really wanted your your personal take on on the tracks rather than you know.
34:44.89
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yep.
34:47.51
Andrew Culture
These are widely considered as and and um I’m ready.
34:48.28
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No I mean it’s a canon of which these some of these are in it quite a few are not. They are my choices. Yeah.
34:58.90
Andrew Culture
Okay, so the next track we’ve got is l a and it’s from from this nation saving Grace and is that the title this nation saving Grace or or you saying because of full full titles I thought the from was part of the title. But.
35:09.44
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yes, yeah, that’s the name of the album. Yeah yeah, so.
35:17.85
Andrew Culture
There’s somebody new in here who’s co-writing and there’s actually quite a few new members more members as well. So I’m going to play this and then they we’ll have a chat about it. So this is L la.
36:14.14
Andrew Culture
So a few years there’s 4 years between that and leave the capital but again sometimes like the same ban to me, especially not the vocals vocals are a real surprise.
36:24.76
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, that this is the introduction of an influence in a big influence route quite a period of um what is Marqui Smith’s wife Brix Smith who
36:40.54
Andrew Culture
Ah.
36:42.50
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Again and I can thoroughly recommend another book the rise and fall and the rise are brick by Bricks Smith start as she’s now known and.
36:48.66
Andrew Culture
Um.
36:58.41
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Life which is quite extraordinary actually means she’s American and her life she had um before and after the fall is as remarkable as her time in the fall and and in fact, she’s carried on making her own music. She’s had albums out fairly recently. But.
37:15.40
Andrew Culture
Budget.
37:17.70
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
She She brings a sort of pop swagger to the fall that I think a lot of some purists who go oh you know this is not live or the which trials or hex induction hour This is this is this is bordery on pop music. Um I think you know. Go with it I mean it it the the riff in that and the just absolute well I use the word swagger I think it’s absolutely fantastic.
37:45.89
Andrew Culture
Yeah, there’s some really funny little bits. There’s some bits that do signal it out as being the full like the fact the drums are out of time at the beginning but it’s because some little so sounds like synths or something so there’s there’s quite several more people in the band now. So I’m just counting them so Simon Rogers
37:57.72
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
38:05.79
Andrew Culture
Craig Scanlan Carl Burns bricksmith Steve Hanley Markie Smith so yeah there’s 6 of them now. So so to was bricks keyboards I can’t remember what she did in the band. Okay.
38:08.45
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, those she’s tubes on guitar as well and there’s some great great videos. You can find on Youtube of this lineup of the band and they just look. Absolutely super cool I mean they just look absolutely brilliant and in fact, the um, the the next track chronologically that I’ve come up with is is even more so that lineup. Just showing them in absolute brilliance. So I think that female influence and actually female influences is there are there’ve been quite a lot quite a thread of um, female members of the of the fall I mean there’s um, early on. Youna Baines their first manager was a woman k carroll they bricks and then there’s um and then later on towards the end Marie Smith’s third wife and Amy Perou she she has again. Adds a whole layer of influence to to it that I think perhaps I don’t know you know perhaps the the female influence was one that could be a little bit stronger with him and he would accommodate more than than a male influence in that it seemed the band changed.
39:44.38
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
With a female influence I think always in a good way. But you know you you can see the fall is seen of as a sort of blokey band full of serious musical blokes and and actually a lot of fall fans are serious musical blokes. But actually I Think. What is great is this female influence that runs through it all as well.
40:07.21
Andrew Culture
So what? what was happening at the time with the band because something I’ve never really figured out is if they have made any money because the the early albums the productions. Okay, it is what I would expect for someone recording in probably not the best studio. But L a everything with this track. Everything just opens out and it certainly starts to sound like a properly produced bands that are recorded in a proper studio so but would oh really and I had no idea.
40:28.88
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, you know? Well you you mentioned John leckey I mean this is this album is produced by John Lecky well I’m mentionuring John Lecky but it shows that they could they could pull in a name. To produce them and yeah I mean they had this period um and actually through to probably a high watermark of um, the entertainment scan in whatever it is the early 90 s where they have um.
41:07.36
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Singles that get in the charts like Victoria and ghost in my house and so on the they they there was a time where they made money. Yeah, um, but a lot of the time where they were.
41:15.17
Andrew Culture
Good.
41:20.96
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, subsisting sort of 1 deal to the next and and touring relentlessly. But I mean they they did hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of gigs I mean they may well be I don’t ah nobody can actually come up with the exact figure of 4 gigs I think there’s but um, that. They existed on on on on touring and just a relentless thing of virtually an album every year you know.
41:46.76
Andrew Culture
Let let’s open another track from this period then so this is a new big princes. Is it prince or prints. it’s prince so it’s PR I n z
41:51.38
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Prince. Yeah yeah.
42:27.77
Andrew Culture
I was just thinking I could probably play that bassline. It’s It’s interesting though you take talking about the swagger and and since you pointed that out I don’t want to keep projecting forward to to other influences. But I mean Arctic Monkeys is is. It’s there fairly clearly isn’t it.
42:33.90
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah.
42:41.89
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, well I think it it this I included this a because if I was locked in a room and asked to name my absolute favorite fall track I think this might be it I just absolutely love it and it has that. I mean there’s there’s a track called and it’s almost one of those phrases like totally wired and hit the north. There are various phrases that have become headlines that get used lazily in all sorts of different contexts but 1 other is another fall track called glam racket and. Um, that glam I mean ah we talk about a rockabilly thread. There is a glam thread that runs through quite a lot of fall stuff and that stomp that sort of glam stomp again, not afraid to use that and it’s I know it’s it’s a bit t rex a bit.
43:30.54
Andrew Culture
Are now.
43:39.42
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Could even be the sweet I mean you know I don’t know there’s there’s all sorts of stuff going on there that yeah is and it’s again, there’s a fantastic um ah um, Youtube Tony Wilson program him introduce I think somebody’s recorded it straight off the telly. Um.
43:42.28
Andrew Culture
It’s been very effective.
43:58.89
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Of Tony Wilson’s late night music shows from that period and them doing this in the studio and it’s just absolutely brilliant. Yeah, it’s from an album called I I am curious a orange which with ah a mad. Um.
44:14.64
Andrew Culture
Hell of a spelling on that.
44:17.85
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Michael Clarke ballet performed at the edinburgh festival of which frustratingly there is no video footage apparently so ah, completely out there thing but that that track is the first track and is is just genius. Yeah.
44:34.40
Andrew Culture
So How how was he regarded in musician circles say that he didn’t like to be a part of a scene or didn’t like to be seen as too too kind of glued to it but finding mixing with Edinburgh fringe people and and ballet dances. It just doesn’t seem like. An obvious thing.
44:53.76
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No no, That’s right? Well there There was some of that he did ah know was it an opera or something called hey Luciani about a pope and there’s all sorts of incredible Stuff. He did That’s outside of Music. He he wrote a screenplay for a um, a horror movie that. That got finally got published not that long ago called the otherwise I mean he was so broad in his artistic vision. Um I mean I think in terms of other musicians I mean he was famously. Um.
45:28.20
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
As as rude as Noel Gallagher is about people I mean he he would be very abrasive about anyone who he thought was um, you know, wrongly popular or or that he didn’t like and so I think there was ah probably a bit of a. Ah, love and fear relationship with between Marquis Smith and various other musicians.
45:51.40
Andrew Culture
I’m always surprised just speaking as a musician I’m always surprised that people are like that because whereas a musician and a promoter Generally, we don’t hire bands like that twice you know, even if they even if they do kind of pull a decent crowd but that there must be there must have been enough niceness. Enough Pleasantness kind of going on to but to maintain it.
46:09.88
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Oh I mean I mean he famously had of course ah an interesting relationship with with drink and would be his rider was quite a ah large amount of drink in the dressing room and you know I think to get.
46:22.44
Andrew Culture
Got such a good story about that.
46:27.31
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Could get a little unpredictable when a little bit worse the where for where but um, no I mean I they never played you know Stadium sort of thing but they were such a staple and such a hardworking band on the circuit that.
46:45.20
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
That they would just keep getting booked. Yeah.
46:48.11
Andrew Culture
Very cool. Um, yeah I got a story about about the rider which is linked to a time I saw the full live and did I assume you managed to see them live at some point.
47:00.19
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
I did yeah I did only I mean I’m um to feel very shamefaced to say I only saw them once which was very late on in in 162 at the in Leeds the bellgrave hall when they were doing stuff from.
47:18.60
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
1 of their last albums and um he was he was yeah it was it was great I felt why have I never seen them I’ve got to go and see them very much a an omission given that they were I mean you know could be argued that. Ah, huge part of their appeal was as a live band and on on podcar on on the the mighty fall group on Facebook of which I’m a member I mean they they have a daily the daily portion will be what gig was it this particular day of the year and and there will all. Will always be some from somewhere around the world and and many many of the members of that group saw the fall dozens in some cases hundreds of times I mean there are people who have seen the fall many many many many times. Yeah, my my main. Quasi-live experience of the fall was and and I guess what I grew up listening to you know was the biggest appeal for them early on was the John Pele sessions um which are just absolutely fantastic and they.
48:28.90
Andrew Culture
That.
48:32.12
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah I mean madly, they are out of print and you have to pay a lot I looked up this morning. You can buy this six cd box set for one hundred and fifty quid on Amazon because it’s quite rare now but they did whatever it is.
48:51.84
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
many many I think they did the most sessions for John Pele of of anybody. Um, and yeah, 24 John Pele sessions between 1978 and 2004 there’s 97 tracks on this and they are nearly nearly everyone. It’s what you could call.
48:58.50
Andrew Culture
24
49:09.79
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
The definitive version of that track better than than the album version and they did it. You know in 1 take made available or wherever it was then they are just fantastic. So that proves that they were the ultimate live band you could send if they can. Deliver the goods time after time in ah in appeal session rather than you know, take 23 in in in an album recording not that they did many takes I think I think a lot of stuff was was done in in very few takes with the albums but you know though that is live to me. Because there’s and particularly since the fall since Marie Smith died the the the slew of live albums that has come out is incredible. Um, often with dodgy recording quality. Um, and I actually prefer to listen to this where you’re getting. You know the the live.
49:50.47
Andrew Culture
Um.
50:08.36
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Brilliance but without the fuzziness of the recording. Yeah, but this isn’t on spot. You can’t it’s not on streaming. It’s not and you know you look up peel sessions on Bbc sounds nothing.
50:10.62
Andrew Culture
Without the other the the terrible What we call a look.
50:26.29
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Which is a soapbox I could climb on and say why why is available but there we are.
50:26.96
Andrew Culture
Why there’s no peer sessions if pair John Pe sessions were such an important part of of music for ah for so many people. Um I’ve I’ve only got I’ve only got stiff little fingers and sparal carpets ones.
50:35.49
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Oh absolutely.
50:46.60
Andrew Culture
But kind makes me wince when I think as a secondhand record shop here and it’s called out oftime records but I used to spend all my time and all my money and as a teenager and the amount of Peel sessions Albums I saw then on the strange fruit records that I wish I’d bought then.
51:00.70
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yep, move.
51:02.99
Andrew Culture
Even if I didn’t listen to them for 30 years because there’s so many bands that I absolutely love now and I just we just saw them all the bloody time just never bought them. That’s my own kind of weakness. Ah.
51:09.31
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No, no oh I mean yeah I mean I’ve got some great Bbc session albums I mean cockto twins stereo lab all sorts of people that have done some great great sessions and. You know as a license feepayer this stuff should be online for listen to you know.
51:30.89
Andrew Culture
It’s ours. Um I’m amazed. There is so much stuff out there with the fall because it must have gone through so many record labels that the the like the rights and licensing for the fall must be a nightmare.
51:41.87
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, yeah I think what’s happened I think cherry red records seem to be the main player I think there’s there’s that a lot of stuff has got reissued in the last two or three years in in and of course with the. With the explosion in interest again in vinyl. Um, you can get some very nice fancy vinyl versions of pretty much everything now and they’re they’re busy reissuing on vinyl some of the. Later albums some of the the 90 s albums you know, like um code selfish I think it’s just come back out on vinyl and so you know if you if you’re really into vinyl. You can go off and spend a huge amount of money on the fall right now. Yeah.
52:31.39
Andrew Culture
Ah I just to go back to the fall live I’ve just realized I saw them when did you see them in 2016
52:38.27
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, oh gosh I can’t carter my bow when it was buttroit. Yeah yeah.
52:40.18
Andrew Culture
Oh sorry I’m looking at your notes now you you said it was may 2016 I saw them I think also in may now am might be June I saw I saw the fool playing at stueart lee hosted or curated and atp festival.
52:57.32
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Oh okay, yeah yeah, yes, yeah.
52:59.98
Andrew Culture
So All all tomorrow’s parties which I went to load to them and and we’re going to do an episode just about Atp because they they were so so brilliant and I can’t remember what I was doing but I managed to miss most of the full set. Well the first third of it and I’m still kicking myself now I don’t know how I did it. Because it was Prestattin pontins which is a tiny little place and I remember figuring out the fall roll and pretty much running from my chalet to to go see them just because they’re one of those bands that I mean sadly at the time we didn’t know how few chances we’d have of seeing the fall but they were one of those bands that.
53:19.69
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah.
53:35.96
Andrew Culture
I’ve got like a list of bands that if they’re playing me me I’ll go I don’t have to know the records I don’t have to know everything about them I just going to go and the end of the set was so wild It was so visceral much overused word but it was so aggressive.
53:37.11
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, like.
53:54.76
Andrew Culture
In a way that really surprised me and what Marky Smith did he walked around the end of the set he walked around all the amps on stage and he turned every single knob of every single amp to full which just sounds horrible I mean this is awful. It’s a.
54:10.79
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, well that that was one of his famous ticks that he would he would go and mess with the amps either turning them up or down or messing the whole set up as for the blood he had and in at was looking at he even did it 2
54:12.68
Andrew Culture
Just sounds at.
54:23.14
Andrew Culture
Thou’st of driven sound Engineers berserk.
54:30.32
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Videos I’d recommend I mean there’s the glass their glastonbury appearance in 2015 so just the summer before we’re talking about the whole of their set that Glastonbury is available on Youtube that’s well worth a look and also um.
54:39.70
Andrew Culture
Wow.
54:48.41
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Markie Smith’s appearance with gorillas at Glastonbury in 2010 doing a track called glitter freeze which is with the full gorillas band and Damon is obviously a big damon almar is obviously a big fan. Um.
54:59.79
Andrew Culture
My mouth.
55:07.00
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
And he comes on and and the whole way does It is just absolutely brilliant and as he’s going off. He goes up to one of the amps and starts to you know it’s not even his band music you briefly twiddle with with with one of the amps there. Yeah.
55:15.57
Andrew Culture
Still does it.
55:22.81
Andrew Culture
Ah, after doing that he went to the back of the stage and there was a curtain hanging up. Um because these these atp festivals were always in pontons or Butland so there there is a stage in webber and he went and he clearly so tried to make this big dramatic thing about sort of you know.
55:31.55
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah.
55:39.00
Andrew Culture
I am leaving the stage and the band was still like an absolute full thing and he he grabbed this curtain and he pulled it really hard and they sort of fell behind him so sort of obscuring him but it was clearly the back of the room because the curtain didn’t go all the way to the floor. And all you can see for the last couple of minutes of the band set was Markie Smith skinny little legs in shorts like sticking out run today and he he stuck to it. You committed to he didn’t move but clearly he must have thought that was the way to get offstage or something swung this curtain and ended up just kind of trapped there because you you couldn’t really come back from that very easily.
56:04.58
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:14.80
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No no.
56:16.18
Andrew Culture
Ah, good you that um I mentioned earlier a story about Markey Smith and rers um atp festival the organizers themselves have written about this. They the full wouldn’t go on stage without 2 things. A. Ridiculous massive rider which I’ll come to in a minute and the other thing is they said they’d only do it Marcu Smither the four would only play atp if they got paid a satchel of money and it had to be presented to them by Stuart Lee now knowing now what we know about atp. And how badly it was run and and how this well this festival they went bust during the festival. Um, so he was probably quite wise but the story about the rider is that it was so long and and required so much alcohol for the band that.
56:52.96
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
The.
57:08.12
Andrew Culture
They didn’t have it. You know the the promoters didn’t have that much alcohol. So Mark Smith was well the the management whoever said look the alcohol has to be in our chalet or we’re not going on stage because you get a shalllet when you play atp proper weirdly english ah british thing. So. They essentially emptied all the bars of the venue just took everything they could. There was something stupid like 30 bottles of odcare is more booze than any band could drink and put it all in in the full shalllet marqui smith chalet kind of happy with that. He went off and went on stage now. The problem with taking all the alcohol away from a music festival is that’s the only way you actually make any money so the organizer the number the number 1 guy I can’t remember his name of atp while the fool were on he broke into Marqui Smith’s flat and with with a couple of trolleys or imagine a bunch of trolleys stole back.
58:03.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Hold it or laugh you? Yeah yeah.
58:05.50
Andrew Culture
The entire rider. Yeah and he only revealed it recently because I think Margie Smith called the police and it became this whole massive thing that I can remember it being in like I Don know probably read on the enemy website or something or somewhere saying yeah Marie Smith complaining about being burgled.
58:13.36
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, Britain.
58:23.82
Andrew Culture
Ah Atp and I can remember like oh shit that’s Awful. It’s not that kind of Festival. It’s not like the sort of place you get burgled. But unless you’ve got all the booze for the entire site and the organizer want sit back. But yeah as you say yeah, many many stories. Let’s have and another bit of music because um, we’re running our time Actually I’m Afraid. So This is the mixer I’m going to play it and then we shall talk about it afterwards.
59:21.12
Andrew Culture
Ah gone I’ll let you I’ll let you lead this one.
59:21.23
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, again, this to me is is a great example of you know you do not have to be frightened by the fall. This is just a fantastic track. But. What’s a fiddle doing on there I mean you know suddenly they’ve got this guy another band member vocals and fiddle I mean you know it’s almost come on Eileen is it edging towards but actually you know in I think the tune is fantastic and it’s it’s sort a different league to that in my opinion. But.
59:45.53
Andrew Culture
That.
59:55.51
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
It’s um, it’s another change of sound. It’s something completely different and they ah think that there’s a bit of um, there’s a bonkers video that accompanies this and it’s it’s pretty commercial stuff I mean having said that I don’t think it even remotely troubled the charts in any way shape or form. But. Um, I and there are some fantastic remixes of this that go on and on and on which are just Brilliant. So yeah, love it.
01:00:21.62
Andrew Culture
The because you’ve kind of raised my awareness of the use of language in in everything. Did you get the word I’m looking at your notes again. Did you get the word fiddle from the sleeve notes.
01:00:35.53
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
A fiddle is from the the sleeve notes. Yeah yeah of the um, the the who’s on it. Yeah.
01:00:39.96
Andrew Culture
Because Violinists who consider themselves but violinists serious musicians really is. It’s a semi-off offensivesive term to use the word fiddle I I say this as someone who I’ve got a violinist in my band I don’t think she’d give a shit. But. Generally, if somebody says oh I’m a violinist you go how you play the fiddle. That’s like a no no that that’s ah you know it’s it’s it’s kind of impolite and core and and course.
01:01:04.16
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yeah, well will we will brief I think member Kenny Brady is is called vocals and fiddles that we yeah.
01:01:15.47
Andrew Culture
I can’t help but feel that’s marki Smith like I just keep me in your place look I know like because you can’t you can’t be a violinist and not have musical training. It’s one of those like no one can play the trombone without being musically trained like you can play guitar bass keys a lot of things without any musical training. But you have to be kind of. Air quotes a proper musician. So Mark is this that I’ll keep you in your place here at Fiddle Fiddle lad
01:01:40.51
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
But there’s I mean similarly another member who was a member for a rather longer than Kenny Bridey I think but Dave Bush is is is assigned machines and um, there are.
01:01:51.96
Andrew Culture
Ah, yes, that’s brilliant.
01:01:54.32
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
You know that there’s there’s synths and stuff going on here in it and so he he wasn’t afraid to pull on board all sorts of stuff that wasn’t just bass drums and guitar. Yeah.
01:01:58.67
Andrew Culture
There’s 8 to 8 in there somewhere.
01:02:08.80
Andrew Culture
Something else I noticed there as well vocals and fiddles I I I’m guessing bricks sung at some point I Just remember the name her band. It’s bricks and the extricated with other full members isn’t it. Um.
01:02:20.48
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yep.
01:02:21.70
Andrew Culture
Didn’t play with her. We one of my bands replayed the night after her which is about as gossam a thing as a link can be to to somebody but how many how how often were other voices on full records.
01:02:34.67
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, um, um, I mean there are there are backing vocal I mean again, this is where you know the the female voice pops in now and again particularly with with bricks. But there are other backing vocals going on but it. Certainly the front and center is is Mark all the time. Yeah.
01:02:57.10
Andrew Culture
Ah I’m thinking back to what we were talking about about the early years because Mark Riley’s voice is very clear on some of the early recordings and it’s interesting with you now talking about the power struggle and um I know that Mark. Markie Smith didn’t like the fact that Riley wanted writing credits. There’s all all these things but it does put a different a different kind of shade shines a different light on it kind of knowing that being that golby about your backing vocals is again, you see as a power play almost. Right? So we say unfortunately we’re we are running at time. So we’re going to play a song now which kind of opens up a whole new line of of conversation about the 4 which I’m really looking forward to talking about and that’s what I’m going to loosely call the covers. So here’s lost in music.
01:04:11.66
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
All.
01:04:17.78
Andrew Culture
Just spirited. It’s you know is.
01:04:21.94
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
yeah yeah I mean I mean I you’re right in terms of I included this because I want you to talk about um them as a cover band in the sense that actually looking on Spotify the top 5
01:04:38.48
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Most streamed tracks by the 4 3 of them are covers of which this is one and Victoria is another and I think Mr Pharmacist is another? Yeah yeah, that’s a cover from I think repelia your.
01:04:50.80
Andrew Culture
Is that cover I had no idea who’s that by originally.
01:04:58.36
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, garage band. But yeah, it’s it’s not a fall original but that I mean Mr. Pharmacist is a good great example of them finding great stuff to nick and to reinterpret brilliantly um, more surprising is is some of their other.
01:05:08.94
Andrew Culture
10
01:05:17.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Covers like you know I can hear the grass grow and they’re the ghost in my house and victorian.
01:05:22.72
Andrew Culture
Ah, ghost to my house make make sense to me and and again I can see that the Marie Smith like the kinks then Victoria yep great song. The.
01:05:28.54
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Oh yeah, no I mean I they are great songs and in in in some ways. It’s not surprising they covered them. But in other ways they are I don’t know you said air quotes mainstream tracks that they weren’t afraid to do a pretty sort of.
01:05:43.56
Andrew Culture
Um.
01:05:48.19
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Poppy cover of um, what what? I find interesting about this is that you know covering Sister Sledge is not is not something you would necessarily expect from the fall but to me it is their greatest cover I mean I just absolutely love it. Unfortunately the clip um brevity to get the full effect. You need to hear it right from the very beginning and there’s sort of we talked about the the weirdness at the beginning of that witch trials track. There’s some wonderful weirdness leading into the bit that we heard and then it it really just cranks into just. Ah, brilliant brilliant rhythm section really just pounding it out is fantastic. Yeah.
01:06:33.67
Andrew Culture
Did did have ah a long record of just having really excellent musicians around him and I was under the impression I’d say years ago before I learned a bit more about the hall which is still very little that he just had a knack of being carried.
01:06:37.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:50.37
Andrew Culture
By other people but I don’t see it that way now we now see as him choosing people who for 1 thing could tolerate being in a room with him but also people who shared a vision or or could help him realize something He’s very much He’s not. When I was when I was a teenager I would have leveled the accusation that it’s just some bloke who talks while musicians get on with the real work I mean that’s absolutely not the case in the slightest but you need people around you if you’re not musically trained to help you realize things some some really good albums Tricky’s first album. He he went into the studio literally didn’t know how anything worked had absolutely no idea how to write a song and that album you could arguably say is by the by the engineer apart from the fact, it’s not because tricky would say no I want this kind of sound. It’s like a rumbling sound and then I want. This bit and he’d he’d take tapes in they say look this bit and this song I want something like that. So you know you you didn’t didn’t have to be a be a musician so mi markie smith ah so but it’s all all the parts of holdinging into place for me now.
01:07:45.50
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yeah.
01:07:50.46
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, because because he wasn’t himself a musician I mean he was just the singer and so you know he needed all these other people to realize what was he was putting down and and they would come up with these amazing. Um, melodies and rhythms and stuff and and it would all just Jell together beautifully. Yeah.
01:08:14.35
Andrew Culture
Cool. So let’s let’s go. We’re getting closer to being up to date now. So this is reformation from 2007
01:08:33.25
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Are.
01:08:52.30
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Are.
01:08:56.80
Andrew Culture
Cop that caught me out that one I was just sitting sitting back in my comfy chair. Ah come just enjoying listening to that.
01:09:01.49
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah I mean that there’s 6 minutes of that and it just pounds along like that and you know the the energy and the power that’s going into that I mean it has to be said, it’s the the album reformation post tlc that this is from is is. Patchy I think as some of the later albums are but that track has always been ah a favorite of mine and shows that you know don’t write off the fall in the two thousand there is some amazing stuff post you know ninety s eighty s that is well worth a listen than that. I was just to in some ways give a taste of the sort of thing that they were doing. Yeah.
01:09:43.60
Andrew Culture
So in in your opinion. What what makes a sketchy fall track. What you say some some weak tracks What what would make it.
01:09:50.47
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah I mean I well in an output ah of I mean I I looked up on my ipod I mean and I’ve got very few of the live albums and I’ve got 807 full tracks on my po.
01:10:07.90
Andrew Culture
Ah, okay, so so.
01:10:08.81
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, so you know in amongst all that there’s going to be some stuff that is a bit dialed in by numbers. You know that? that’s oh let let’s just do ah a bit of a rockabilly thing that doesn’t really have much much of a tune beyond that and is just a bit of mumbling going on but there’ll be.
01:10:15.30
Andrew Culture
Sudden.
01:10:28.54
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
ll be some like that. There’ll be others that ah that yeah that and you know I’ve heard steve handy talk about this. He goes. Well yeah, we we needed to get something I mean an album room to live one of the earlier ones which was sort of dashed out I think after. It’s oh we just went in the studio. We didn’t have anything written. We just sort of came up with a few bits and that’s what happened and and and quite often that would be the process and and you know a huge amount of the time they struck gold and but as with any band at times it was well. It’s right? but. You know, move on.
01:11:07.70
Andrew Culture
Okay, I just realized I completely forgot to play my other track at the right time chronologically so I’m gonna chuck it in now. Um, it’s rebellious jukebox from live at the witch trials and the reason I chose this is this is the track for me that made me suddenly realize the fool just weren’t. Weren’t a band that just John Peele talked about that there was there was something there that connected to me and I really liked. So I meant to say the reason I put it. There is I’ve always want to know what he says there and I cannot find it. This is why I was looking up. Lyrics is a lot of top of frot of but also it’s kind of almost hip hop. It’s just like. The sort of the can take the can. But yeah, the the pace and and the um the tighter is anyway I’ll play it properly now.
01:12:29.23
Andrew Culture
Apart from the fact is it’s ah it’s a lesson in how not to mix a band. It’s a oh and the drums are far too loud. So’s the bass. So what? what? what? Mike Bar Riley played did he was he the guitarist.
01:12:31.88
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, yeah, that Keyboard suddenly goes all over the place doesn’t it. Yeah yeah.
01:12:42.35
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
he he played um he played guitar and bass. Yeah um I mean there’s a really good version of that rebellious jukebox one of the John Peel sessions is.
01:12:44.53
Andrew Culture
As says.
01:12:57.42
Andrew Culture
As you say though that art singing you know he he is absolutely singing that chorus that that’s probably probably 1 of the more conventional tracks off the first album and the something I wanted to talk about but I’m unfortunate we running at a time is.
01:12:57.43
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Where I think actually the mixing is better. So yeah.
01:13:05.14
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yeah.
01:13:08.13
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah.
01:13:15.90
Andrew Culture
How much of of the influence of the sort of social commentary because the first album got no Christmas for John keys which it took me years to realize was junkies. Yeah, um, and there’s industrial estate which is kind of it’s grim. There are no jobs. You’ll just have to go there. But.
01:13:22.85
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Some keys. Yes, Yeah yeah. Yeah.
01:13:35.82
Andrew Culture
The man sort of seems to quite quickly wander away from that. There’s always an element from the bits I’ve heard today of of I can’t even see as a thread through any of it actually it’s just Markie Smith talking about whatever he’s reading about I assume or whatever he was into.
01:13:46.13
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yeah I Certainly don’t think you can bracket him into a overt social commentator and I think he would hate would have hated the thought of of.
01:13:56.80
Andrew Culture
Now.
01:14:02.96
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Being that. So I think he is much more of ah, a subtle and clever operator than to try and beat people over the head with with a message. Um, and I think he actually I think he disliked message records on that basis. You know.
01:14:18.79
Andrew Culture
They they age. Don’t they they they they never last because whatever you’re making a message about then you’re gonna you’re gonna lose the potency of it over time.
01:14:24.22
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Not yet.
01:14:31.87
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, and and it it veers into headlining and crass simplification and all sorts all too easily. Ah.
01:14:42.33
Andrew Culture
Right? So final track I’m a bit confused about this one? Um, oh because the album is called ah your your future hour clutter from 2010 And the track is called OFYC showcase.
01:14:56.67
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yes, so it’s it’s a inversion of it’s our future. Your clutter is.
01:15:01.42
Andrew Culture
Um, ah I should have I should have seen that I should have assumed that let’s have a blas to this.
01:15:38.88
Andrew Culture
Just yeah that that sounds like something. It’s great, but it does sound like a band in a studio seeing what happens.
01:15:48.53
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah, well yes yes I mean that that there was this nucleus 3 guys a sort of guitar basin drums set up who were actually ah for the fall a remarkably stable lineup towards. Towards the end for several years. It was it was that lineup along with elainey pulu his his third wife who dipped out when they became estranged but um, it. It’s just a really muscular.
01:16:23.45
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Almost like a garage band. He takes it back to and and just no nonsense um getting getting some stuff down and um some of which works there are a fewer. Absolutely amazing hooks and melodies that there are on.
01:16:42.41
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, load of the earlier albums but there is a lot to admire and to get from the last 3 or 4 albums and that’s really just ah, a taster of that. Yeah.
01:16:51.85
Andrew Culture
Thank you? So thank you ever so much for these choices I’ve thoroughly enjoyed kind of taking this journey through the fall. But before we go I wanted to talk about the human aspect as in the fans. The people who weren’t in the fall. The people who who follow the fall. Because they strike me and I’ve witnessed this as one of those bands that collects a tribe around it. So other bands that have done that Carter Usm remember them I’ve I’ve had bandmatetes who are part of the carter tribe and they all still hang out and um.
01:17:23.60
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yep.
01:17:29.31
Andrew Culture
And it’s a thing that binds them in in quite in ah in a very positive way and I imagine the fall having seen them I know they’re the kind of band that people will go when they were touring. We’d see them every night of the tour and I know that I read reports of fantastically bad behavior. Um, but.
01:17:48.63
Andrew Culture
Half of ah Marie Smith you know turning up at a gig in at the garage and basically refusing to play it came in in a wheelchair I think um.
01:17:55.82
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Well, that would have been late on or or slightly early when he he was Ill Yeah yeah, oh yes, for oh I see Yeah, okay yeah.
01:18:01.18
Andrew Culture
I know this this was years before he was ill and and he came on played 2 songs went off for forty. 5 minutes came back and said you’re only getting three more try to start have people start and fights with each other and so. So what’s your’s your experience I mean you connect you say you’re on the Facebook group is what what? So. What’s the community like.
01:18:19.98
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Yeah I mean there’s the the mighty fall I mean I think there’s more than one but that that I mean certainly since he since he died in in 2018 I mean it’s a bit like you know when when bowie died in 2016 the amount of interest in a band or an artist I mean you know Shena O’connor’s funeral today I mean absolutely astonishing interest in someone um, inevitably that that gathers around someone but I think what.
01:18:47.10
Andrew Culture
Um, yeah.
01:18:56.70
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
And the number of books that have come out. There are more books that have come out since the fall finished and since Mark Died than than prior. Um, and but I think it’s it’s all good. Interesting stuff and um that I mean I’m i. Totally hold my hand up and say you know I I discovered huge amounts of the fall since 2018 you know I went I did a you must get them all and from only having a smattering of them I went off and. Sort them all out on ebay and stuff and have now got every fall studio album I mean you can get most of them on streaming anyway. But you know and track down the peel sessions and um, all these things and um and. You know with Spotify, you can go off and do that and I’ll happily create a ah playlist for you. But um I think that accessibility you have now through social media through streaming you can go and do your own voyage of discovery.
01:19:53.37
Andrew Culture
That’d be wonderful. Thank you.
01:20:05.89
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
On the fall and an increasing number of people from every generation are doing that I mean I think quite a number of the members of the mighty fall um group are you know there’ll be women in their thirty s and you go well hang On. That’s not the Falls demographic. But. Falls Demographic is spreading and it’s anybody now you know.
01:20:27.81
Andrew Culture
That’s a lovely note to end on. Thank you very much for your time Mark um I really appreciate it is there anything you want to add before we go. Yeah we i.
01:20:31.55
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
No, no, that was it was great. Sorry yes we what was going to be half an hour turned into an hour but it’s been come. Yeah.
01:20:40.54
Andrew Culture
Want to slam the door I mean I’ve got to stop at some point because I’ve I’ve got I’ve got work to do but you know I’ve I’ve got somebody um, got a couple of builders repairing my bathroom at the moment and they they’ve quite reverently I didn’t ask them to be quiet, but they’re quite reverently not made any noise while we’ve been recording which is quite amazing. So um.
01:20:44.96
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s um.
01:20:58.90
Mark Beaumont_Thomas
Ah, walk the the lad that hour and a half to your bill. So yeah, we couldn’t we couldn’t do anything governor while you were recording? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, goodbye. Yeah.
01:21:00.42
Andrew Culture
Yep, cool.
01:21:05.31
Andrew Culture
Right? I’m going to say Goodbye would you like to say goodbye.
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